German AC experts . . Help pls

Jesters-Ink · #1 (**permalink**) 19th April 2007, 20:21

Graf’s Bf109G-6 as far as I know looks like this.
White tail with the white being painted under the stabilizers.
Ribbon, iron cross and Graf's own logo on rudder, with 172 kills recorded between the ribbons. 33 kills, (30 Russian) and (3 USAAF inc. 2 B-17s, white star with red spot) in 33 bars under the ribbon.

Works Number 15919 not as Osprey have it 15913?

No radio ring on the top of the AC behind the mast.

5 pointed tulip nose art with yellow bib and Red 1 with white outline on the tail.

I've fitter her with the "standard type" G-6 wheels??

Drop tank and air to air mortars.

Small thumb--->

BLOWHARD · #2 (**permalink**) 20th April 2007, 08:51

Nice job as always Jester!!!!

Hmmm...what's the question? Is it all correct?
What photos do you have? This best source would be the Eagle Editions book on Graf & Grislawski -
Graf
Unfortunately I don't have it.
There's the Claes Sundin interpretations from the book-

And-

Claes, you out there???
I'd say Claes' pictures are pretty correct in that so far the Eagle Editions books are VERY well researched and lean heavily on first hand interviews with anyone who was there.
Unfortunately I'm ignorant as to what planes he flew. How many 109s did he have at the time? More than 1?
Judging by the camouflage on the 2 Sundin profiles, this is the same plane with the personal emblem being added later.
I take it you've seen this photo?

I think the standard wheels are a good choice here with the way the rest of the plane is configured.
I'll see if I can find any photos in my books.

...wait...does my lack of info on this plane mean I'm not a Luftwaffe expert?

Jesters-Ink · #3 (**permalink**) 20th April 2007, 12:34

Thanks Blowhard, good of you to take the time to look for me.
I think Sparty72 will be investing in the book you talked about.
I'll post here as soon as I get any new info on this AC.

BLOWHARD · #4 (**permalink**) 20th April 2007, 21:42

I found some pictures in one of the Jagdwaffe books, Vol. 5, Section 1.
I'll email them to you

The Jadgwaffe book also says the 1 was green. This plane was probably pretty well known as far as colors and details so I'd say green is probably right if 2 different researchers, Forsyth and Bergström, both say it's green.
One thing though, the Jadgwaffe book shows picture of a G-5, not a G-6 and give the W.Nr. as 15915...very confusing :P

Look for an email in a few minutes

Jesters-Ink · #5 (**permalink**) 20th April 2007, 22:23

I love history

Thanks again Blowhard, I'm sitting on my mailbox

Otterkins2 · #6 (**permalink**) 28th May 2008, 23:09

Note the green one. Sombody finally got it right....but what else can you expect from Jester?

Baron von Blutwurst · #7 (**permalink**) 29th May 2008, 02:35

Hey there Jester.. It is a G-5 and it was Green 1 m8. Everything else looks pretty spot on. The hieght of the white theatre markings on the tail is an unknown to me though. Cleas may have it correct or you may.

Jesters-Ink · #8 (**permalink**) 29th May 2008, 10:16

This is the age old problem Blut, I've seen it called both by the same artists over and over. So . . . where do we go from here? Cleas has been rumoured to have seen film of the actual aircraft, which is probably why he has updated his own drawings. Is it a G-5 or a G-6, I dunno, round and round on the Graf merry-go-round.

elephant · #9 (**permalink**) 29th May 2008, 10:19

I agree it is obviously a G5.
Look carefuly at the pic Blowhard provided and the small ventilation intake, just below the windshield, is not present, meaning that the plane has a presurised cockpit ie G5 variant.

Also look where the radio antenna wire joints the fuselage, close to the tail.
Claes' version has got these two details right.

I think that these two tiny details should be corrected, other obscure details are just matters of interpretation as already mentioned above by Baron.

PS I found another pic of the a/c in JAGDWAFFE Vol.5, Sec.1, page 34, that reveals another tiny detail that Claes' profile depicts right:
The white tail paint stops at the stabilasers height on the upper side were the tail joints to the fuselage.
I also noticed in Blowhard's post pic that the Wr. No and caution stencils were masked when the special tail paint was applied, thus their backround should be the original factory finish.
Claes should have made this observation too that's why he depicts all the caution stencils in this way.

Jesters-Ink · #10 (**permalink**) 29th May 2008, 15:19

Any chance of the works number pls Ele and a scan of that pic you hav