PC10 is always a good topic for arguements, as there is usually too little information on the specific scheme or recipe involved. I would like to discuss / argue nicely about that lack of information here.
For starters, as most people are in need of colors, here is a chart of colors for the RFC and RNAS in WWI ...
Note: This is a .jpg, for obvious net reasons. If you would like a 3.0GB original, or a 186K .tif, please contact me by pm or e-mail.
If you are interested in more than just the colors, please stop back later and read on after this post. All comments are welcome, as maybe we can actually clear up some of the mis-information, or at least make it muddier.
One of the important pionts with PC10 is that there are references to both Finishing Schemes and Patent Schemes.
Finishing Schemes (A to F) are the complete instructions needed to finish the airframe. They involve dopes, varnishes, and the order in which they are applied. They do not specify which recipe to use.
For example, Scheme D is for nitro-based dopes and varnishes. The nitro being more flammable than the cellulose limited it's use at the front, but allowed for training aircraft to be finished. Thus lessening the impact on the supply of cellulose based varnishes to combat aircraft. Early Scheme D consisted of clear shrinking fabric primer over-painted with non-shrinking pigmented varnish.
PC10 Schemes (Pigment Schemes) referred to as recipes in the chart, are the actual colored pigment mixes. Based on Patents taken out by the British Government.
Theoretically, a complete color chart would be an array, approx 5x6x15 with axes for Finishing Scheme (6), Patent Recipe (5), Manufacturer's Codes approx. (15). More practical, a 5x6 grid would suffice.
References, before continuing with this thread, I would like to give credit to the gentleman whom most of this info is based on. The research by Ian D. Huntley, and his many articles and columns published over the last 40 years.
PC10 is always a good topic for arguements, as there is usually too little information on the specific scheme or recipe involved. I would like to discuss / argue nicely about that lack of information here.
Excellent chart-- thank you. I do so love a good colour discussion, don't we all? (lol)
I am not au fait with WWI colouration, to be sure, but I have two immediate observations / questions. Firstly, are there any surviving authentic specimens of any of these finishes (we'll stick with PC10 for now), and if so how have these been analysed? Secondly, I see an immediate difficulty in the photographic interpretation of these values. Because of their constituent pigmentation, all of these finishes will look indistinguishable on period film, both orthochromatic and monochromatic. Indeed, they would also look identical on a panchromatic shot, assuming such could be found showing an example of PC10. Very difficult.
Since that is so, I have to suggest that archaeology has got to be the main way forward. What is the current state of play with this investigation, then?
Great work Rufe ! (I'm a deticated follower of your Aerodrome thread too)...
You could possibly, upload your original file here in Simmers Paintshop...
Great Rufe! For those of you who are interested, a more complete explanation, Look here- Hey GrahamB - Resene Colour Matching
Especially you Jester!
This is SOLID work here!!!
Some actual fabric matches, including the fabric collection held by the Imperial War Museum, the Albatros Fabric Collection was matched by Ray Rimell, some methuen quotes matched to fabrics, and some actual chemical recreations by Ian Huntley, done over a 10 year period. I believe the VR3 was matched directly to the original Sopwith Snipe, s/n E7604, for example.
Yes, I'd say it is quite impossible to tell from photos what color it is, but that is not always necessary. If you have a good photo, you can usually see the finishing scheme codes on the airframe (especially the rudder). The year it was built, and the airframe drawings would give you more clues. Theoretically, you could build a database of serials matched to the codes on the rudders, and you would probably know 90% of the colors.
Manufacturer's also tended to favor certain suppliers.
There is never a substitute for thorough research, though.
Also, stocks of the different recipes and solutions were kept on hand for repairs, matched to those finishing codes on the airframe. So, an early sopwith, finished to say Cellon Scheme A, could be repaired and refinished with said Cellon Scheme A materials even in late 1918-1919!
One of the other reasons for this is that some manufacturers' varnishes were incompatable with each other.
In summary, the aircraft fitters that handled repairs had only to check the finishing codes painted on the airframe, and match it to their stocks.
Seems we should be able to do close to the same.
What bothers me though, is the transitions to later pigment recipes. I haven't found enough data there yet. It is all probably sitting in some boxes at The Hub, Library/Research Center in Farnborough England!!
Great work Rufe ! (I'm a deticated follower of your Aerodrome thread too)...
You could possibly, upload your original file here in Simmers Paintshop...
Thanks Elephant,
I don't mind putting a copy up here, ( it is 2.9GB though) I just have to figure out how. It is a bitmap, no artifacts!
fantastic work there, i am so glad you gave Ian the credit he deserves, a lot of his work on colours is overlooked by people today.
you must have spent years trying to sort the bloody PC10 enigma out, and i thought RLM colours were a nightmare
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JMSmith (back by popular demand)
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